For the 24th of May there seems to be a difference between the collect of the Office and the Collect at Mass. The Office calls for the Collect - Deus, a quo bona cuncta. But the Mass is listed as Missa Exaudivit which has the collect - Praesta quaesumus. Is this correct, meaning two different collects are used today? One for the Office and one for the Mass?
The majority of sedevacantists do not follow the pre-55 liturgy and embrace the reformed Holy Week. It is really only those whose lineage descends from Econe that do not.
They are a minority. Majority of Sede chapels obey the pre-1951 Missal. Fr.David Hewko of the Resistance-SSPX is now obeying the pre-1951 Missal too. -Andrew
@Anonymous, @Anonymous, Yes. You must bear in mind that in the ideal situation, as foreseen by the Roman liturgy, when the Rogation Procession takes place two Masses are celebrated the Mass of the day and that of the Rogations. In private Masses on the Tuesday, when no feast occurs, the Mass is Exaudavit whilst in the Office the oration is of the preceding Sunday.
@Andrew, You may be right but I doubt it. As I said when the Mexican lineage groups are added in along with some of the French SVs (who use '62') I would have thought them a majority. If they are not then it is a good thing and shews more people rejecting the liturgical novelties.
@Joel, Yes, some do. The French were very much into liturgical experimentation in the 1940s and '50s - see the post for May 1st this year for an example.
The Isituto is based in Italy and follows the Cassiacum thesis, sedeprivationism. They are liturgically very sound.
This 'blog is about liturgy and liturgical changes and not about speculative theological opinion so yours is the last comment on the subject that will be enabled.
For the 24th of May there seems to be a difference between the collect of the Office and the Collect at Mass. The Office calls for the Collect - Deus, a quo bona cuncta. But the Mass is listed as Missa Exaudivit which has the collect - Praesta quaesumus. Is this correct, meaning two different collects are used today? One for the Office and one for the Mass?
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Thank you for you work. Just wondering, are you aware of priests who do the full pre-55 liturgy, not just the Holy Week, besides sedevacantists ?
ReplyDelete@Joel,
ReplyDeleteI am aware of an increasing number.
The majority of sedevacantists do not follow the pre-55 liturgy and embrace the reformed Holy Week. It is really only those whose lineage descends from Econe that do not.
I thought only the CMRI complied with Pius XII's changes, making them a minority.
DeleteThey are a minority.
DeleteMajority of Sede chapels obey the pre-1951 Missal.
Fr.David Hewko of the Resistance-SSPX is now obeying the pre-1951 Missal too.
-Andrew
@Joel,
ReplyDeleteThey are relatively large as groups go. Also add in the Mexican Carmona lineage and I think you will find they are the majority.
@Anonymous,
ReplyDelete@Anonymous,
Yes. You must bear in mind that in the ideal situation, as foreseen by the Roman liturgy, when the Rogation Procession takes place two Masses are celebrated the Mass of the day and that of the Rogations. In private Masses on the Tuesday, when no feast occurs, the Mass is Exaudavit whilst in the Office the oration is of the preceding Sunday.
Does it mean that the Mass of the Rogations can be celebrated without the Litanies and the procession ?
Delete@Joel,
ReplyDeleteOn the Tuesday of the Rogations, when there is no occurring feast, yes. Exaudivit will be the Mass.
@Andrew,
ReplyDeleteYou may be right but I doubt it. As I said when the Mexican lineage groups are added in along with some of the French SVs (who use '62') I would have thought them a majority. If they are not then it is a good thing and shews more people rejecting the liturgical novelties.
French SV do ? I found a very critical apraisal of the new Holy Week on the Institut Mater Boni Consilii's website.
Delete@Joel,
ReplyDeleteYes, some do. The French were very much into liturgical experimentation in the 1940s and '50s - see the post for May 1st this year for an example.
The Isituto is based in Italy and follows the Cassiacum thesis, sedeprivationism. They are liturgically very sound.
This 'blog is about liturgy and liturgical changes and not about speculative theological opinion so yours is the last comment on the subject that will be enabled.
Sorry Rubricarius, I didn't mean to cause any trouble.
Delete@Joel,
ReplyDeleteYou didn't. I just thought it was a 'rabbit hole'.
Thinking back on this, if there is no procession on Feria II, is the mass still of the Rogations ?
ReplyDelete@Joël,
ReplyDeleteYes.